A $1,500 Garage Simulator, Where to Start with AI, and an 8.8 IPA

00:00

Dalton: Welcome to another episode of the RDTFM podcast. We've got Chris on the approach tonight. We've got Chad bringing us some golf simulator discussion. And I am working on trying not to get lost in this freaking hotel again. We got, first things first, we got to pop these tops and get into these beers. Let's see, I'll kick us off tonight. So I'm in Nashville in a hotel, so I quite the time securing any kind of beer and found one that Chad knew called Hippies & Cowboys it's an IPA shocker there it is by Tennessee Brew Works six percent brewed in Nashville so it is local which is cool we'll see we'll see how it goes I don't I don't know anything else about that so picked it up just a little bit ago Chad what about you what do you got over there

Chad: Yeah I've Well, I can give you, so we have small firm owner meetings and we met in Nashville one time and I won't go into a tremendous detail on it, but I had more than some of those Hippies & Cowboys and I liked it a lot. So we'll see what you think, am unable to tell you anything about it, Your Honor, I do not recall. So, I've got from Great Divide, I've brought a non-IPA this time. So how about that?

Dalton: But I There you go. I've

Chad: Got the Yeti Imperial Stout, and I don't drink a lot of these. And by not a lot, I mean, I don't know the last time I had one.

Dalton: So we'll

Chad: See how it goes, but I was just told to not do an IPA. So I'm just doing what I'm told because I'm, I'm definitely the low man on totem pole here, apparently. So, nine and a half percent, nine and a half percent. This is

Chris: Nine and a half.

Chad: Yeah.

Dalton: Yeah. That's heavy. Yeah.

Chad: Yeah. So I had no, I had no pregame beers before this one. This, this is going to be plenty for me. But I have to do this one here because our next two shows, because of travel reasons, I will have to do them from my office. So at some point, I'll need to get home from my office. And two-

Dalton: Five percent sounds good.

Chad: One, nine and a half percent is probably not a good idea. Two, I'll probably be staying there. So I had to do this one tonight, but yeah, looking forward to it. So Great Divide's good. That's a good place. I've never had this one, but I've had a lot of their stuff before, so.

Dalton: I don't know if I've ever had a stout that I would rank higher than a four. What do you mean? Just not. What about like a

Chad: What?

Chris: Guinness?

Dalton: Is Guinness a stout? Yeah. Oh, okay. Then I take back my comment. I've only ever had these like funky, dark, gross tasting stouts.

Chad: Yeah. Isn't it? Oh, yeah.

Chris: Dude, Guinness. Guinness is better than a Fenniflora.

Dalton: Yeah. Maybe I need to go down the road to stouts a little bit more because every time I see a stout on a menu, I'm like, no. But I like Guinness.

Chad: This is wildly different than a Guinness though.

Dalton: Okay. Yeah. So that's probably what I'm thinking of and I'm like, yeah, it's not above a four for me.

Chad: Yeah. I'm digging it. All Chris, what's happening?

Chris: I've got a Sip of Sunshine from Lawson's Finest Liquids. I guess that's the name of the brewery. This is the last of the four pack from Vermont from my buddy who I will be joining, well, He'll be joining me and the member guests later on this week. So there's that. Yeah, right. IPA, no shock there. It is 8%. I thought it was a better showing than my last two, which are like six something, whatever. And then Chad comes in with like a nine percenter. So there's

Chad: That. You will never, listen, listen, part of this is a golf, this applies to golf too, but you will never be, you'll never have a higher number than me, pal. Forget

Dalton: About it.

Chris: Dude, this is like, this is a good beer. Yeah, all right.

Chad: We're starting off good.

Chris: Let's go. Okay

Dalton: Moving on. All right, so our scorecard tonight a little bit different. I've got nothing to add to the table. I've been traveling busy Nothing, nothing. No fun. No fun for me But Chad has put in quite a bit of work on the golf simulator game over the last what six months eight months

Chad: Year, yeah

Dalton: Year So we're gonna we're gonna unpack that a little bit get into Details about the simulator game net space required all the questions that we've thrown at him over the last year trying to figure this thing out so Chad why don't you give us kind of high level what your setup is what you think what the people want to know yeah Chris and I'll follow up with with questions

05:14

Chad: Yeah so mine is mine is basically a it's kind of a garage practice simulator is basically how I would would describe it it's in a I've got a standalone metal building here here at the ranch, and so I've got a TV set up that hangs on the wall. The launch monitor itself connects to an iPad, and then that is mirrored to the TV. So there's no cables in any of this process at all, and then I'm just heading into a net. So that's kind of what mine is, And I think that's what I've got, honestly, is pretty highly functional and probably pretty far down the low end of cost, really. So simulators don't need to be a five and 10 grand experience.

Dalton: Yeah, that was, I was just gonna say, that was kind of my, because I think that was the biggest thing that shocked me when Chris and I were first asking you questions. Because I see, you see all these ads on Instagram and stuff, right? And it's $10,000 for this set. It's like, oh, dude, I can't. Like, there's no way. Like, that's a family vacation to Disney World for us. Like, I can't spend that on a simulator. For sure

Chad: Yeah. Like, if you want to go over 20, I promise it isn't hard. And seen some that are super, super cool.

Dalton: I've And if money's not an issue, awesome. Love it, great.

Chad: Yeah, which it's really not for any of us, but I still try keep it down with the people.

Dalton: To What would you really rough ballpark to get your setup? What would you pencil it in at?

Chad: Oh, boy. So Launch Monitor I bought, you used, I think, for like $700, the TV, a couple hundred bucks, the net. I think I paid $300. Got a funny story about the net. But so I would say $1

Dalton: 500

Chad: Probably, and kind of all over time. So some of those have been added and upgraded. It really, because I started out with a little $100 pop-up net, you know what I mean? The ones that people put out in their yard for practice. So the launch monitor is, that's the lion's share of the cost for a setup like mine and probably. Probably further up the up the totem pole too. That's where that's where things can get pretty Expensive so like like when I think about it. It's kind of what do you want to accomplish with it? Do you want it to be? So mine is eight four for practice. I want I want to get stuff about like swing swing path You know ball speed and all that kind of stuff so I want I want the data about my swing and just a place to practice really so that's one way to do it and then the other end of the spectrum is doing something that you know you've got space for for buddies and friends to come over and you can it's more of like a almost like an entertaining type of space too those are the ones that can get super expensive, require a lot more space, but are way freaking cool.

And so mine's just hitting into a net. I found a place that does a custom-sized net. And so we talked about it a little last week, but it's just got the sides, a back, and a roof on it. So you can hit your entire bag in there. When I had that pop-up net, I was pretty much limited to maybe eight iron and up. Anything with a real high ball flight was going to, playing Plinko around the building.

Chris: So you say you can hit the entire bag. What are we talking about as far as the width of the net and then the ceiling height that you've got to work with?

Chad: Yeah, ceiling height, when you talk about where to put it, ceiling height is one of the biggest factors. So you need, I would say at least nine feet, probably 10. Like mine is a 10 foot ceiling and I don't have, like I don't have any issues. I've

Chris: Seen a lot- Any issues meaning like you can hit driver, fall forward, not a problem.

Chad: Exactly, and I'm six, like I'm not crazy tall, I'm six foot, but I can hit a driver and I'm not coming close to hitting the ceiling. So I've seen a lot of things about people that are like, I'm only 5'5", and the problem with some of that, number one, if you go much below nine feet, it's probably going to be an issue, if not you for some of your guests. And the other side of it is there's a real thing that they talk about, I don't know if they call it simulator swing or indoor swing or something, but psychologically, you don't you don't get the same type of swing and results and data because you're like mentally your mind's like I'm in like a box here I don't feel like I can cut loose so you want to have enough space to be able to take your normal you know your normal swing so nine or ten feet tall and then you know the depth like the room you put it in like depth some of that stuff depends on can either or predicate what type of launch monitor you get, or you, well, that's basically it.

So if you've got a ton of space, you've got way more options. If you don't have a whole lot of space, you're kind of limited to more of the camera-based systems that are mounted overhead. Those tend to be the more expensive types. So, room size kind of, that's a huge part of it is what, you know, what type of options are they leaving you? Because the radar type like mine, you need space behind it. So I need seven to eight feet behind where I'm hitting the ball to put the launch monitor. Whereas a camera system, you don't really need that much because it's mounted above most of the time. And

11:53

Chris: Then how much flight room do you need for that monitor to pick up?

Chad: Mine, the one I've got is a Rapsodo MLM2 Pro and that one, I think they suggest seven feet of flight. You want to know, it'll probably pick up less, the more the better. I have a little more room on mine now just because it just gives it a little more time to pick up trajectory, spin, ball flight, that sort of thing. So the more time it has, the better. Obviously, that stuff is a lot more accurate when I'm actually at the driving range with that launch monitor because it can

Dalton: See

Chad: The whole thing. So at least for the one that I've got, like seven feet to the net and about seven feet behind the hitting zone. So you need, think about 15 feet of space. So that has eliminated a couple of the options that I originally wanted to do. So the space is a huge deal and space kinda depends on what you're trying to do with it too. So as far as like practice type net or entertainment.

Dalton: Chad, I've got kind of a similar, maybe a similar thread question. As you went through the process of like picking, let's focus in on the launch monitor. What was the hardest part of that decision? Like what did you get down to like I'm kind of between these two or these three or whatever it was and what kind of? Tipped you one way or over the other, you know, like what was the what's most of that decision?

Chad: Cost really so okay Well, I guess I started with I wanted something that was accurate. Like I want I wanted one that was You know some of the cost-effective ones that were going to actually give me good data, like good ball speed data, because I use this to sort of get club mapping and all that sort of stuff. So I want it to be accurate. And I do think the one that I have has proven to be pretty accurate. I went with a used one, a used model of what I had. So at the time, I remember looking at that Rapsodo unit that I have now. Bushnell has one of those portable type. And that's another factor, too. I wanted one that I could take to the range with me. But the cost, those are all going to be on the lower, I say the lower end of cost.

And we're still, I paid $700 for mine, and used some of those, Rapsodo just came out with a new model. So you now see a lot of the model that I have for sale, probably around $500 or something, maybe even less. I don't know, something like that. But I would say that's a pretty good deal. If I was starting from nothing and trying to keep this pretty low, I'm pretty happy with my unit. That would be a good way to get into it and try to kind of keep your costs contained for a while.

15:20

Chris: Talk a little bit about the mat. What do you have? Is it like full-size mat? Is it partial mat? How'd you decide

Chad: On that? Right now, partial mat. And I would tell you, if you're gonna play a lot and swing a lot on it, the mat is more important than you think it is.

Dalton: And

Chad: I think I've now, I've figured that out the hard way, just what I've what I've got is a you know I've not burned through like three or four of them at this point but just sort of the cheapest type ones that they sell it you know a sporting goods store the smaller mats that are you know a couple feet long it's basically just a hitting area alone what I want is a big 5 by 5 mat or something like that, like they have, like you'll see at the range or something like that. So that's the problem on the cheaper ones, especially if you're having like in a garage set up on concrete is, man, that's tough on your wrists and elbows and things like that. So you don't notice it right away. It's not like you hit once and you're like, oh my gosh, I feel like I broke my arm.

But you take a hundred reps on it and the next day you're like, holy cow, I'm a little achy. So the mat is a very, very big, very big deal. So, and that can be up, all this stuff can be upgraded as you go too. That's one of the, that's the next one for me actually is the, is to upgrade the mat and get something a little more forgiving and comfortable.

Dalton: I played a course maybe a month or so ago and they, their driving range was almost like a simulator, right? It was like maybe 20 yards long and 40 yards wide. So they had like six mats, but it was cheap half inch thick mat on top of concrete. And that's what you're hitting off. And I hit my 60 degree. That's usually what I hit first to kind of warm up. And I kind of just like easy, like chopped down on it. I was like, ow, like immediately. Like I was like, oh my gosh. And so I was like, okay, I need to like sweep these. I can not like compress this in it. Like I can not take a divot. Yeah, so I felt that right I could totally see how that would be like you could do some damage to yourself if you're not Careful and don't have a pad or something underneath Yeah

Chad: For sure. Sure But you know one of the thing with this there are some that do putting like I don't have putting on mine I've been if I'm gonna practice putting that's probably not

Dalton: Where

Chad: I'm gonna do it, but if you're gonna do a like an entertainment There are some that do support putting, like the new Rapsodo model does. My old Rapsodo model does not, which I don't personally care about. But if you're going to do those simulated rounds at home, if you have putting, some people like it, some don't. I don't particularly care because when I play, it just has basically a gimme ring. So, you can set whatever range you want for a two-putt, one-putt, three-putt sort of thing on your approach. So, it definitely speeds up around if you don't have putting, and I don't think it really... My opinion for mine is that it didn't really add much entertainment or practice value to me, so I didn't go that route, but others disagree. So but if you want putting, that's going to further limit what you do on the launch monitor.

So yeah, and then other than that, really, again, we talked about the cost. I think mine is 1,500 bucks. You could very easily get $10,000 to $20,000 on these pretty quickly. So if you do the full screen, I've looked into those a lot. But if you want to play a true simulator where it looks like you're standing on the course, that's a projector you'll have to buy for that, the actual hitting screen that you hit into. One thing I'd say about those, those things, they're kind of loud. If you live in a townhouse or an apartment, this is nuts.

Dalton: You're

Chad: Not going to make any friends, because those things, they pop pretty good. They're pretty loud. And you have to they require maintenance they wear out they'll get little burn marks from the balls you know that when they when they hit them hit the screen so all that stuff comes into play but that's really all based on what you want to do with it like there's no reason for me to have that on mine because that's not what I'm using it for but we can still we can and do have people come out and you know buddy sit around and we'll play you know we'll play Harbour Town or something like that and just it's Just kind of fun enjoyable deal, but it still doesn't break a bank. So

20:35

Chris: So Rapsodo do like a combine kind of thing It's one of the things I've always been kind of interested in getting in my garage set up is be able to hit wedges Certain distances and stuff like

Chad: That Yeah, it does and it's and it's all pre Set as part of the base software that comes with it. So, And again, that's something I haven't really been able to do much because I didn't have the right So now we'll be able to do some of that stuff a little bit more, just add a little more practice.

Chris: That's cool

Dalton: It sounds like you've solved a couple of your, maybe initial like first pass headaches or like one of them's on the roadmap with like an upgraded mat. Upgraded net is another one, right? Like allowing you or enabling you to hit your whole bag. As you look through like, or look back on this process, is there anything else that you're like, Man, I wish I would have just done X from the get-go instead of doing what I did besides those two, because those are already two really good tips, right? Like, get a good net, get a good mat, in addition to like the good simulator. There anything else that you would have done?

Chad: Is Well, it's also worth pointing out that I never really intended to be here. I really

Dalton: Just

Chad: I wanted to monitor just to kind of take to the range and hit into this net, And then somewhere along the way I figured out that I could, you know, mirror it up to the TV and the note, and then we're off to the races after that. So, yeah, I mean, really those are the two biggest ones, the, that and the TV I already had out there in that space. Like those, those are kind of the three, you know, if you're just, if you're just kind of getting into it, that's what, that's kind of how I would do it. If you're just looking to dip your toe in is get those three things, get them quality, and then I promise you're gonna find other stuff that you wanna upgrade along the way. Yeah, Because I have.

Dalton: No, that's, I mean, that is super helpful, and at 1,500 bucks, that's the kind of number where it's like, okay, like that, it is a lot of money, like don't diminish that, but it's also like, you know, that's achievable, or you know, like that's the type of thing where it's like, yeah, like you could set that up, and especially if you live in one of these colder climate places, where golf on a course is not realistic in the next four months, five months, however many months it is.

Chad: You could probably, you know, if you picked up one of like the used, the Rapsodo model that I've got, because they're cheaper now new models come out, it's, well, the old ones though are probably half that. I mean, they're probably less

Dalton: That the than what

Chad: I paid, so you probably get that for 500-ish, I don't really know, But, and then a hundred, $150 net. And then you could, like, if you really wanted to, you could just run it off your phone. Like you don't have to, know, just those two things alone and you could get what I actually intended to do with this to begin with was just get some swing data, before, before, you know, I hooked on drugs here with the simulator. Yeah. Sometimes I think drugs would be cheaper as I

Dalton: You got have it. Awesome well that's I mean I think that's good intel it's good insight for us to digest Chris you want to give us a kind of a quick golf life update from from your end

Chris: Probably would be my golf update is I've got a member guest coming up this week the while the most important part of the fall member guests is the cornhole tournament so that's really that's correct. I didn't coming. So, 100%. It's the most important part. So that's really kind of been the focus for my partner and myself. One of the things I just kind of wanted to mention…

Dalton: But see that What are we doing?

Chris: Relax. A little bit more seriously, one of the things I want to unpack with you guys, very, very briefly because I know we've got time limits here. But, so I took. So clients have to go play golf on Friday, so a couple of days ago, today being Monday. This is only the second time I've ever done that, legit clients who I've never met in person.

25:02

Dalton: Okay. Yeah. So these are client clients. These aren't friends that are also clients. These are client clients.

Chris: Nope. Nope. We've met over Zoom, but that's pretty much it. They're local to me, but we've never met. I run a virtual firm. That's just how we operate. It's not unusual for me. Second time I've done it, so I've been trying to do it a little bit more intentionally. This year. I did that. Now, I also took out my youngest son to play nine today. My last meeting of the day, client cancels. He's sick. Cool. Weather's beautiful. What are we doing? Yeah, let's go practice. Actually, let's go walk nine holes. I went to my oldest and said, hey, you want to go play some golf? He's like, yeah, I got a bunch of homework. I'd rather do that. I'm like, that's great. I'm raising a human that's better than me. But

Chad: My

Chris: Youngest son, he goes, well, what about me? I'm thinking to myself, what about you? Reason being, he is self-professing. He does not like golf. He's been saying this for years. He doesn't like the heat, he doesn't like the bugs, whatever, but he and his sister have been kind of dabbling a little bit lately. I'm like

Dalton: Let's

Chris: Go, right? So we went out, we walked, and we played nine. I don't think he's ever walked nine holes before. Had a great time, it's awesome. But yeah, kind of the thing that I wanted to unpack is just the difficulty of playing client golf, playing golf with kids, like playing when it's, when you're not necessarily trying to make a score, you're just trying to make sure that like the group is having

Dalton: Fun. Everyone's having a good time. Yep.

Chris: Right? Yeah. And I, you know, like when I was probably six holes through the client round, I'm like, I am absolutely not good at this. I suck. It was fine and we had a good time. You know, just in my head, but it's like, I am not good at this. And, you know, it's just been it's been a little bit of a difficulty for me is just learning how to do that and do it well.

Chris: Go ahead, Chad.

Chad: When you say not good, like, are you like you'd find yourself frustrated with your like your shots or your game or not paying any attention to the client at all? What do you mean by not good at this?

Chris: Yeah. You know, that's a good question. And it's like, I'm trying to hit a shot, right? And it's like, well, if I'm doing this, I'm not focused on whatever, like what should the conversation be? Should we be, because I knew going in that they had a very specific tax thing that they wanted to talk about. Like, well, at what point during the round did we bring that up? And as it turns out, we get to 14 and my one client is like, man, that beer is really gonna taste good after the round. I'm like, I didn't know we were getting beers, but dammit

Dalton: Let's

Chris: Do it. You know, and so like he kind of, and you know, we go into the bar, we grab a beer, and then he kind of brought up like, this is the thing that I wanted to talk about, and it was cool, it was great. And you know, I appreciate the way that he handled that. But you know, for the four hours preceding that, it's like, well, when do you bring up this thing? And you know, just trying to feel somebody out as they're playing golf, like, do you give them this putt? Do they want to putt

Dalton: It?

Chris: You know, it's like all of the weird nuanced stuff where if it was like the three of us out playing, and you'd just be like, ah, pick it up. And we would make some sort of a snide comment and everybody would have a laugh and then everybody would get another beer and it'd be fine, right? But that's not the way that it goes when you're playing kind of outside your comfort zone. Kind of like a weird learned skill, you know?

Dalton: Yeah, and I think your journey on that is going to be more difficult than most because you have been a competitive golfer. Right, exactly what I was gonna say. As like, this has only ever been fun for us, right? Like we have never. It's all but I'm putting myself in that like as a college soccer athlete college soccer coach Uber competitive in the soccer world Man, if I went to go play soccer with somebody and they weren't playing Well, I would chew them out like there is no like let's have a giggle and enjoy this It's if you're if we're not winning now, I'm pissed and right like there's so I could see how that could be a difficult you're going to have a harder time navigating that, right? Just because that is, you have been very good at something, you know?

And so your standards are just different.

Chris: Sure. But I bet if you're on the opposite end, where if you're like really bad or if you don't play much, I'll bet it's exactly the same, but for a completely opposite reason.

Dalton: Yes. Yes. Where you just don't even, you're so uncomfortable and so in your own head.

Chris: Yeah. Like where do I stand and who goes first? And how do I fill a divot and how do I fix my pitch marks and who gets the flag and all of the little nuance stuff. I

Dalton: Feel like maybe we could be pioneers of going through the golf etiquette questionnaire pre-round. Like we established what are the five things we all need to know so that we just all enjoy this. Don't care who has honors, hit your putt when you're ready. You know like like if there's like what are those five things where we like we just on the first tee We knock them all out, and then we're all on the same page, and we just all enjoy it You know like what are those things that just get them out of the way, and we have a good time and don't care

30:23

Chad: Yeah, yeah, I think a big of it too is knowing knowing Who you're playing with too because like if you go play with if you go play with me Like whatever man like you think

Chris: Part

Dalton: I don't

Chad: Care. You can do whatever you want. You can play barefoot for all I care. I don't know, whatever.

Dalton: But

Chad: If you're playing, that could be as simple as just looking up their handicap. And if you say you're playing with a plus 1, that's probably a different situation than playing with me. You play with a 17 and like me, you're like, all right, I probably get more into the vibes and conversation side of things. If you're playing with a plus 1, they probably want to play well because they don't really ever show up to the course just to jack around and shoot the shit. So I think that's part of it is knowing your audience too. But I think some of that stuff too, if they're not great, like people at my level, it can be intimidating playing with real low handicap players because you're like, I'm so out of my element. Am I supposed to get the flag?

Like all the things that you said like the high handicappers that's I promise you that's front and center of their mind so what Dalton suggested is probably pretty good idea to be like it just so you guys know I don't care you can pick up whatever putt you want I don't I mean we're not playing tournament here so that's how I don't know

Chris: Yeah yeah we should unpack all that on a on a future episode.

Dalton: Right, yeah. How to have an enjoyable round with a newbie.

Chris: Yeah, for sure. Are you guys ready to get into the approach?

Dalton: Yeah, let's do it. Let's transition there. Chris, you're bringing it for us tonight. What do we got?

Chris: I am. I sort of want to apologize ahead because I know at least one of you is going to hate this. However, it has a dual purpose. So, shameless plug for the new RDTFM website. If listening and you haven't checked it out, check out the RDTFM website. It is now live.

Dalton: Of time you're rdtfm.com.

Chris: Rdtfm.com. So, that website was built with Crock, Crock-Pot.

Dalton: Crock-Pot.

Chris: Crock-Pot, which we call Crock-Pot, affectionately, as it were. So, when I was building out this thing over the weekend and just like shamelessly texting you guys, It kind of made me think, you know. If you've never done something like this, and if you see people doing it on the interwebs, which is how I got started with all of it to begin with, how are you telling people to get started? Are people asking you, what do I need to be thinking about? And that sort of thing. And then actually today, I had a client ask me, hey, where do I even get started? Because apparently, I didn't even remember, but I had mentioned to somebody in some meeting kind of offhand, oh, you could probably do this with AI. So, I'm just wondering, from y'all's perspective, is this something that clients are coming to you, talking about, asking about, and if so, what are you telling them?

How do you get started?

Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. I think, Chris, it might have been you that summarized it this way. It's like garbage in, garbage out, right? Absolutely. So, I think I've definitely told clients that when I think they are, okay, good example. I've got a buddy who's also a client. He does data security for a bunch of like colleges and universities. So, he'll go in and he'll like, here's your vulnerabilities. Here's where you need to like pay more attention. Here's where I think you need to whatever, right? Like I try to get it and it's just above my pay grade. For him, with his loan out corp, I was like, dude, vibe code something, make it check your statements, he doesn't have a lot of volume, have it code stuff for you, look at it once a month, or have a secondary AI take a look at it, see if it's right.

And he totally did, and it's fine. Now he tried to reconcile it, and then that went haywire, so it still didn't quite work. Not quite

Chris: So fine.

Dalton: But it was a really quick cleanup for me. I think I asked him like, you reconciled everything, right? And he's like, what's that mean, right? Like, so it was more like lack of knowledge, right? Nice, yeah. So, but I think that's, I mean, maybe that is the perfect example and summary of outsourcing AI, right? Like he was somebody that is like literally leveraging AI and agents to do his majority of his business under his oversight, fully technically able to like, build the AI, prompt the AI to do a task, but doesn't know like the end step of the bookkeeping piece is to reconcile it all, right? Like to make sure like you got it right. Like how do you know you got it right? So that's that garbage in garbage out. Like if you don't know what you don't know.

35:47

Chad: Yeah, like how do you write a prompt when you don't even know what the hell you're talking about anyway?

Dalton: What you need it to do, right, exactly. I

Chris: Almost feel like what I'm hearing you guys say is that you should start with something where you know what the outcome should be. Totally.

Dalton: Yes. When you know I know zero to 100, I know where I'm starting and I know exactly what it needs to be, the finished product, and I know every step, I just don't want to do every step. That's the scenario that AI I think makes a lot of sense.

Chad: Yeah, I think a lot of that stuff, like I got more comfortable with it, and I'm not even talking about agents and all that kind of stuff. I'm just talking about using an LLM for questions, it's just more like creative thinking type of stuff, because there's not really a right or wrong answer in there. And that's sort of just getting you into the environment and seeing how it works. And then you're like, OK, well, if it can do that, you know, maybe we can do this. I've told some of my, like, I don't really have a lot of clients, honestly, coming to me asking how they can, I mean, most of my clients are. Usually of a size that they've at least got some finance people working there already. So they're

Dalton: Not

Chad: Trying to get things off of their plate necessarily. But some of them, I have told them you'd be better off just trying and just ask some of these LLMs, some of these basic accounting questions. Even if you just did that, even though you may not know what it's talking about, just describe the situation and do what it tells you. And you're going to be right a lot, not always, but a lot more than you are right now with some of the stuff I have to fix.

Chris: A lot more than you are right now.

Chad: So I don't know. I think it's just getting in and getting comfortable with it. But I don't know that the same roadmap would work for everybody, because we all start from different places. Like you started from a pretty good tech knowledge and standpoint. Like you didn't start out as somebody who didn't know what he was doing at all with tech. You know what I mean? And I do have some clients there. So we all start from different places. I think it's just getting in and using it and kind of opening your eyes a little bit to what it can do. And sometimes that spawns other ideas of things we can do that. There was somebody online the other day that I was looking at, and his idea was try to one day where you try to have it, AI do almost everything that you do throughout the day.

Some of it's not really going to work, but it just forces you out of the mindset of it's just easier if I do this, it's quicker for me to do it on my own and that sort of thing. Which I thought was an interesting idea. It's not all that stuff is gonna work. Like we can't AIOA our entire jobs, but I think it's an interesting way to start and kind of open your mind a little bit to what it could do, so.

Chris: Yeah. I like the idea, I'm sorry, Dalton.

Dalton: Go ahead.

Chris: I like the idea of having a fully documented process, making a very small piece in that process and Dalton, to your point, if you know zero to 100 of that piece and what done exactly looks like in that piece, then take that to an LLM and say, how can you help me and start there. Like what I my client

Dalton: Told today

Chris: How can you help me is a great question. What I told my client today, we kind of got into, it was mostly, they have an accounting background and stuff like that. So it was mostly about QuickBooks. I said, well, I would use the connector inside of Claude, start there, and then just ask it questions, and then skills. We talked about skills and what those are. That's probably not a getting started kind of thing. That's more of

40:18

Dalton: A

Chris: 201 kind of class. Even then, I was like, hey, if you don't know what skills are or how to build them, just ask. Ask Claude, how do I build a skill for this? I like that really small piece that you know exactly this is what this is supposed to look Like, and then you can at least tell, you know, you did a good job here. You didn't do a good job here. I need to tweak my process. Yeah.

Dalton: Yeah, I was going to add just maybe another example, and I think the point I'm trying to make is that the ramifications of failure matter.

Chris: So

Dalton: My example is I do a ton of trust in estate work, probate trust estate. So, I read trust documents often, review them, read them, I have to understand them because I have to do accounting or tax returns based on them. I would not trust, trust, that's a funny word. I would not have confidence in having AI write my own family trust because the ramifications of it being wrong are so significant. You know, even though that's something where it's like, I could read that thing and it's something I'm in all the time. It could be really close to being right, but man, if one thing's wrong, that would have huge impact on my kids.

Chad: A So there's a lot of people that have that thought. And this is something that has never really bothered me, but there's a lot of people that are totally comfortable turning over the most applicable thing to our businesses is I'm just going to have AI do my tax return. And I wouldn't personally do it, but other people I know are very comfortable doing it. They've tested it. But I'm not offended at all that you want to do that. That might be for some people. Is it going to be accurate? I really don't know. I can't answer that. Maybe. Maybe not. But different people are going to have different comfort levels with a lot of that stuff too. For some, it might be this could be wrong, but the trade-off is I don't like interacting with people.

I don't have talk to somebody this way. So I'll take that risk-reward, you know what I mean? So

Dalton: To

Chris: Like a tax return can be amended, right? But so like how, here's another example in Dalton's realm. So how many business partnerships have you seen that have gone absolutely sideways? Like more than zero, like would you have AI, right? Your operating agreement? No. No, no, right? Yeah, so pick something that's low risk, pick something where you know what good looks like go from there for sure

Dalton: Heck no. No, yeah I know I think that's I think those are good good bits awesome all right let's let's get back to these beers give them our ratings here ratings are on the website officially rdtfm.com so you can check out what all these scores mean see what our leaderboard is Chris what's your what's your score yeah

Chris: So I've got well first of all I have to apologize for the second time this episode I that this was a Vermont beer. It was sold to me by my buddy as a Vermont beer. It is not a Vermont beer. It's a Connecticut beer. It's

Dalton: The same place. I mean, that's basically the same.

Chris: Yeah, whatever. So it's a Sip of Sunshine, and it is in fact a Sip of Sunshine. I am enjoying this quite a bit. Lawson's Finest Liquids 8.0. It is from Stratford, Connecticut, which is most definitely not Vermont probably. I do. It's

Chad: Vermont adjacent I think.

Chris: I don't even think that's right. It? No.

Chad: Is They're all just

Dalton: Sorted. Literally the furthest away from California as you can get. So anything past like Kansas I got nothing.

Chad: They're all just gonna

Chris: Smash stuff there. They're still Maine. Yeah they're still Maine. I guess we're just gonna forget about that

Dalton: One too. It's all New England. It's all just New England.

Chris: Sure. Alright So, my highest rated beer so far is Bound By Time, which was last week, and that was an 8.6. I think I would much rather drink this Bound By Time. Yeah, I don't think it's a 9, so I'm gonna go 8.8.

Dalton: Eight eight split the difference. I love it. Yeah leader for Chris Nice nice Chad. What do you about you? What do you what do you got? What's the score?

Chad: So I've got the Yeti Imperial Stout from the Great Divide Brewing Company in Denver I Told you I didn't drink a ton of stouts, but I might start because this is Wicked it's awesome. I love this I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go Let me go an even eight. I really like it. It packs a punch, which I like. We talked about last week how I like abusive IPAs. This seems like an abusive. I feel like it's going to hit me. So like it. It

45:22

Dalton: I

Chris: Feels like there's some deep-seated issues that maybe need to address.

Dalton: You

Chad: I don't think my issues are even deep-seated. They're just right there. You can

Dalton: See them. Just dangling in front of you.

Chad: Yeah, we'll just show them right to you. Yeah, eight even for me.

Dalton: So I know, okay. I've got Tennessee Brew Works. This is the Hippies & Cowboys that Chad likes. I'm starting to believe that Chad might different taste buds. Damn it. This is 6.0%. It's not bad. I definitely, it's between probably a six and a seven.

Chad: Have It's

Chris: You

Dalton: Know? What? It's definitely not, well, I mean, Chad doesn't remember what it tastes like.

Chad: Objection. Your Honor, I never said Putting words in my mouth.

Dalton: That. It's, what's the right way? You know, it has a little bit of the bitterness of a stone, but more understated. And has a little bit of that quality of like, leaving your breath tasting bad, you know? Like, just, yeah, not-

Chad: That's a quality. You

Dalton: Like that? You like those?

Chad: You're saying that's a feature, not a bug of beer?

Dalton: Yeah, well, it's not, yeah. I think it's, it is still decent. Like, I'm not, it's not a bad beer. It's just those two things are like, they could be better. I'm going to say it's a 6.6. That's my, that's my, I mean, is that hippies? When were hippies around? Dude

Chris: That sound you just heard was Chad's heart breaking.

Dalton: Yeah, crushed. If you were rating this, I mean, 6.6 is a score, I've locked it in, but Chad, if you were rating this based on nostalgia, I can't say memory. I don't know. What would you rate it?

Chad: Again, I genuinely don't, I don't know. I

Chris: Don't

Chad: Recall, your honor. I, it's, so like the hip, so full disclosure, like Hippies & Cowboys is the name of a song by my favorite living country artist, Cody Jinks. Shout out Cody Jinks. I just saw him in concert a couple of weeks ago. So maybe that played into it. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe you're wrong. Maybe you're You're probably wrong, but fine. So yeah, I don't remember. But first of all, that was a couple of years ago, three, four, I don't know how long ago that yeah I was a young man then and I don't I don't

Dalton: Not. That's was. Recall

Chad: Any any of that that was pre what's that stupid thing we did the little pedal bar pedal bar thing yeah

Chris: Yeah the bike bar thing yeah

Chad: Yeah if you've ever been to a knock it very new big yeah biggest Nashville you've seen the obnoxious people on the Pedaling bar, which is a scam by the way. That was us. That

Dalton: Broad was no pedaling required comes.

Chad: Yeah, it turns out Doesn't actually do anything

Dalton: Pedaling does nothing anyway All right, well, we've got our beers, we've got another episode in the books, thanks for joining us. We'll see you all next time.